26 Perfectionism & dietetics with Jessica Serdikoff
Do you struggle with perfectionism?
You’re not alone. Especially in the dietetics & nutrition field!
Today I’m chatting with fellow dietitian Jessica Serdikoff about perfectionism in the dietetics field, how we got here and what we can do about making changes as we move forward.
Jess is a US-based registered dietitian and Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor who splits her time between a small, intuitive eating virtual private practice and a full-time supervision business for fellow dietitians feeling overwhelmed by burnout, imposter feelings, and paralyzing perfectionism. In supervision, Jess helps dietitians more clearly define their professional identities and values, set better boundaries, and build confidence in their work.
Jess shares so much from her experience working with other dietitians, invites opportunities for building your awareness through reflection and practical steps to move away from perfectionism in your business and practice.
Let’s dive in.
Links, resources & mentions
Ending Dietitian Burnout & Imposter Feelings - 3 day workshop with Jess
Empowering Dietitians podcast:
And to hear Jess and I chat a little more here’s my interview on her podcast Ep 30 Why your values matter
Connect with Jess:
Episode Transcript
Laura Jean 0:04
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Dietitian Values Podcast, and today, I have a guest with me. I've got Jess here, Jess is from empowering dietitians. And I realised before I pressed record, I didn't double check how to say your surname Jess, I'm going to leave it to you when I hand it over to you. Because Jess and I have met on Instagram, where all things happen these days. And so Jess and i have never actually met, and I've never heard Jess being introduced. So Jess is an amazing dietitian doing some things around the supervision space, but instead of supervision and coaching around clinical, Jess is using her skills and her experience to support dietitians around how they show up. And if you've been hanging around here, for any length of time, you know, that's something we talk about in relation to values. And Jess and I actually bonded over values, so we'll probably get into talking a little bit about those. But I'm going to hand over to Jess to do a much better job on her own bio and probably a little bit of practice what she preaches around around talking about herself, who she is and how she got where she got. Okay, and I'm really excited to chat to Jess today. Thanks for coming.
Jess Serdikoff 1:47
Of course thank you so much for having me. I always love having conversations with you. So I'm very excited to be on your podcast and chatting about some of the stuff that we both love to talk about. Like you said my name is Jess Serdikoff, it looks a little bit more intimidating. Although little fact as we're recording this my last name is Serdikoff but I am in the process of getting married. So we'll see what the paperwork is like, but my last name may or may not be changing soon. So for right now it's Serdikoff. I am a supervisor to dietitians and I really focus on helping dietitians navigate the spaces that are holding them back. So that's things like perfectionism, things like imposter feelings. It's things like burnout, all this stuff that we get stuck in and prevents us from feeling confident, from feeling really connected to our work. And I'm here to support you, to help you really reconnect to that passion of yours.
Laura Jean 2:44
Yeah, and I love that just I really love how you've created this, this space of supporting dietitians because I think within our profession, and I know we've talked about it before, there's all these almost like, you know, professional, what's the word I can't think of the word. It's too early in the morning, I'm recording this at 5am in the morning, words are probably gonna escape me. But you know that things that kind of hold us back and in the end how we show up - kind of like a professional liability, almost you know that so many dietitians, experience, and that impacts on how we show up as individuals but also as a profession. So I love that you're tackling that. One of the things you mentioned there in the introduction was perfectionism, which is something that I thought would be really great for us to dig into today because I really appreciate the perspective you share. So I'll let you kind of prime that up around around what you're seeing in our profession as a whole but also for individuals around perfectionism.
Jess Serdikoff 3:42
Absolutely. So it really started with my undergraduate experience and I was definitely type A perfectionist, I still am a type A perfectionist, I'm working on being more type B and have certainly been able to cultivate some of those characteristics and dispositions. But at my core, I still have that perfectionism in me. And I distinctly remember a lot of my professors joking about it, like they would say, oh, dietitians, we're all you know, perfectionist, haha, and kind of laugh it off without giving any space for the real world consequences of what can happen when perfectionism goes too far. And so I started to see, not only I was struggling with this, but my classmates were, my peers were, as I got out into the field, my colleagues were and no one had anything to do about it. They simply accepted it as a fact of being a dietitian. And that didn't really sit well with me.
Laura Jean 4:44
Yeah, there's that it's interesting, and I can relate to that, that whole kind of acceptance of things. And I think, no, no, you talk about the surround around the that space of what is and I think there's a difference between acceptance and us. Acceptance making peace and acceptance resignation, like that's what it is, and therefore there's nothing we can do about it. (Jess - Absolutely), yes. So there's that difference there and and your, your supervisions because you do focus so much more around around individuals and how they feel and how they show up and how and the things like that, that they're struggling with perfectionism, imposter feelings, etc. How did that come about for you? Was it really just through your own experience or what sort of what sort of drove that?
Jess Serdikoff 5:29
It's interesting I, I knew that I wanted to open up a private practice. And so I was going through the, you know, cliche, who is my ideal client, and what am I helping them with, and all of these things. And as I started to create this avatar, so to speak, of who I wanted to help, I knew I wanted to help women who were experiencing a lot of stress in their lives. And I knew that even though I was a dietitian, and I was staying within my scope that this was a bigger conversation. This was a conversation about taking up space in the world. This was a conversation about confidence and assertiveness and having a strong sense of self. It was a journey that I was going on in my personal life at the time and could see a real gap. And as I started to toy around with who this person is who this woman is, in particular, it really clicked that it was other dietitians. I kept thinking about my interns, my student volunteers that I was working with the other dietitians that I was training and my full time job and my own experience, and I started to realise that we didn't have enough support as dietitians. And I really wanted to be able to fill that gap so that other dietitians who had similar experiences to what I had gone through to what my colleagues had gone through, didn't have to struggle alone or feel so isolated.
Laura Jean 6:53
Hmm, yeah. And I think that common humanity piece which I I you know, from self compassion kind of work really comes from what youre talking about there, but I think has such value that, that we're not alone, that we you know, that is a shared experience, because I think, like you were saying before, even though people sort of talk about Oh, dietitians are perfectionists or dietitians are this or that, and we could do a lot of funny reels on what dietitians are or are not. However, often it's each individual feels like, I think sometimes, and this might be your experience, you can probably talk to it more because you work with supporting dieticians around this, but sort of feel that their experience that they are alone, that they're the one the only one struggling and the only one who isn't kind of measuring up. What have you sort of found around that,
Jess Serdikoff 7:44
Exactly that. I can't tell you how many messages I get on Instagram, how many conversations I have on a discovery call with other dietitians or once they get into my program, working with me how much they say like, I had no idea that other people felt this way. When I have my group calls with my clients, and they start to talk about these shared experiences. They say, I thought I was alone. Like I thought I was this crazy person over here struggling, and then everyone else would think that I was nuts for having these thoughts or that there was something wrong with me for having these thoughts. And we start to recognise, through this validation, that we're not alone. And through the support, we can start to heal, we can start to grow. And we can start to change the narrative of what it is or isn't like to be a dietitian.
Laura Jean 8:37
Yeah. And I think to what the thought I had when you were just talking about there is the other opportunity I feel like this opens up for us then is to see, is to then go that next step and ask why. So if we all so when we're sitting over here as individual dietitians, and we're thinking I, you know about how we feel and how we show up, and these are still our individual experience, but I think when we can see that collective, when we gather together in support, when we share our stories, when we create spaces, where that's, we can do that, then the next question for me is always well, why like, why are we all like it. if this is a very common shared experience, what is creating it and what's your either opinion, or very strong, you know, stance flag-in-the hill, you're going to go down on around around the why piece?
Jess Serdikoff 9:30
It's definitely a flag in the hill that I will go down on I talk about this constantly. And it's a very core foundational piece of my program is to talk about this why piece because if we stop at, this is a problem with us at the individual level and we place all the blame on us, then we're really missing the bigger piece of what's going on. I ascribe to a few different kind of theoretical frameworks in my business. It's part of my values part of my approach and one of them is feminist theory. And really what that boils down to is looking at systems looking at the bigger influence in the world. And when we look at that, we can really see that perfectionism is a trait that is reinforced in our society. And it's something that you are rewarded for. I know that when I was growing up, the fact that I had such attention to detail, I was so on top of things, I was good at school, like I had those driven perfectionist traits, that was congratulated, it was rewarded, and it was reinforced. So I learned all my life that it was something to strive for. And I never learned that there were downsides to it. Or if I did, it was kind of just brushed off as Oh, well, this is just the downside of having this drive or having this grit. And, and so we're really set up from an early age to view perfectionism as a good thing or view perfection as the goal.
Laura Jean 11:03
Yep, absolutely. I think, I don't know about you, I was just thinking when you say that, about that, the slight downsides of perfectionism. I don't know if in the US in the in Australia often in like interviews, job interviews, one of the pieces will be like, you know, what are your weaknesses? Or do you feel like have any, and everyone's got their kind of polished answer about perfectionism, because it's kind of like, it's a good thing to have. And the weaknesses are actually, you know, okay, you know, quote, unquote, because because of what of the of the outcome, which, of course, is what our culture our society very much is all about is just doesn't matter really how you get there, or the process or the collateral damage along the way, as long as the outcome and the output are good, quote, unquote, good. I was just thinking too when you were saying that so what what would you say? Or what do you say because you do talk to a lot of dietitians about this. And you probably almost could write a research paper on it. What do you see are the other like, what's the fallout from perfectionism? So we all know why, well we've just talked about that why piece. But what's the fallout at that individual level and even at that at the bigger picture professional level?
Jess Serdikoff 12:19
I can probably turn it over to the audience to reflect for a minute on what is the fallout on perfectionism? What are you struggling with right now. And chances are if you're struggling with it, it's tied to perfectionism in some way. So our stress around time management, whether we burn out or not, is severely tied to perfectionism, those imposter feelings that that tends to really paralyse us. All of those things are rooted in this feeling like we are not inherently good enough. And we have to constantly be striving to prove ourselves to be better, and to hit this high standard that we and or society has set for us. So I could really like have this never ending list of the fallout. But chances are everyone listening has experienced it in some way already. We just maybe haven't tied it to perfectionism yet.
Laura Jean 13:16
Yeah. And everyone has their own experience, I think that's a good point. Because while the the experiences overall like everyone does have their own own impact of it, but like you say, when you can get, when when we can reflect on it, we can probably say all for people who aren't there yet. And maybe there's that niggle that this isn't quite as helpful as I originally thought it could be. There could be some things. So I think that's a really great invitation is to, to reflect just to take time and sort of think about what's the what is the impact for you as an individual? And what do you sort of see as the impact overall in our profession, like what do you see showing up because of this sort of embedded perfectionism in us as individuals, but I think I think it's there at that professional level too. It's like almost like an expectation - the chicken or the egg. But you know, around that,
Jess Serdikoff 14:09
I don't know that there is a root cause it's the cyclical nature where one reinforces the other and vice versa. But there are a few major ways that I see this taking effect. This not only impacts how we feel in terms of our confidence, but it also impacts our own body image and our own pressures. So being a dietitian in our current society, and from what I've gathered, it is similar across countries, but please correct me if if you've noticed anything different in Australia, but for sure, in the US, there is a high pressure for dietitians, to look a certain way to eat a certain way to act a certain way. I know dieticians, who when they were students felt like they couldn't bring anything but an acceptable snack into class. That's an issue of perfectionism. I know dieticians who feel really anxious if their body changes which, let's face it, after we graduate, when we're 23 years old, our body is absolutely going to change in our careers and they feel like their worth is hinged on that. It also takes the form of feeling like we have to know everything and we have to be constantly accruing more knowledge, more skills, more training, because we aren't inherently perfect enough yet as is.
Laura Jean 15:32
I can definitely relate to that one myself, like you know, thinking back to my early career around the needing to know everything. And I know that comes up in conversations, you know, with other dietitians, that real push that we have to know everything and when you were talking then I was thinking, which I've thought before but just probably worth highlighting is that there's there's so many parallels between that in diet culture. And so for the non diet dietitians you know, out there our tool of choice when it comes to perfectionism and playing that out for us is often within that striving for or having all the credentials, getting everything right, never saying anything wrong and sometimes it does manifest in our relationship with food because let's face it we exist in diet culture too. I think there's there's parallels with our clients thatthe way that they're trying to gain that, to be perfect, is around that controlling of food and bodies and it all comes back to that piece that you said in there which I've said as well and we'll probably both repeat ad nauseum is around our worth you know that coupling of our worth with something outside of ourselves in this case you know being the perfect quote unquote dietitian, having the perfect body or you know quote unquote of course you know caveat obviously all these words with quite a few quotes though that pressure around them.
Jess Serdikoff 16:51
Yep, and that's why I what I use is is an intuitive living framework so the approach that you take mirrors intuitive living or intuitive eating principles quite closely and that doesn't mean you have to be an intuitive reatnig dietictan ,a non diet dietitian, to do this work, but it is the framework that I pull from, and there are so many parallels about how we relate to the larger culture and the larger systems that we exist in and the pressures that they place on us and how we look or act or live
Laura Jean 17:26
Yep, absolutely. And yeah, you can't help but see, like you know once you start that conversation like asking why but also then starting to see those parallels, which just reinforces that bigger picture piece that it isn't us as individuals, obviously we can we can address it at our individual level which might provide us opportunities to change ourselves, not change ourselves in like there's something wrong with us, but to make change to move towards feeling more comfortable, like you said, feeling more confident. what are some of the ways that you feel, I know you talked about reflection as a first point there that you would would recommend or like if you were to give people some some thoughts if they're just starting this process or even if they're a little bit of a you know, sort of noticing maybe perfectionism isn't all it's cracked out to be, to kind of scratch away at that or to to shift. what are some, I suppose thoughts, questions, reflections, or practical tips if you've got them for the people who are struggling or not so much struggling maybe just starting in that awareness phase, I suppose.
Jess Serdikoff 18:38
Well, I'm I'm probably biassed, but I'm going to recommend support pretty quickly. Because it's really hard to do it alone. And we know from working with just our own clients, our own patients that sometimes seeing the glass from the the outside is easier than from the inside. So when we're deep in something, whether it's a food issue for our patients, or clients or perfectionism for us, it's really hard to do that work. Even if we logically and rationally know the stuff that we're we're going to be told. so I highly recommend having a support person, having some space that you can go to to work through these so that you don't have to feel so alone. But if you're kind of in those like early stages, you're you're putting feelers out, then I have what I call a three tier approach. So I always want dietitians to look at things from the macro level, the mezzo level and the micro level. And that's really what you spoke to about how these are systems based problems. And also there are still individual level approaches that we can take to it because I think that what we wind up hitting a wall with is if we say well, if it's a systems problem, then what can I do and I might as well just throw up my hands in the air and this is my life and that resignation. One piece that we talked about at the beginning. So we have to understand that there are the three levels that we have to come at this with. So we're coming at it from a micro or individual level, we're coming at it from a mezzo, we're kind of looking at our field and our profession. And then the macro really big picture systems wide approach that we're going to take and there are things that you can do at all steps of the little hierarchy to be able to navigate and deal with these perfectionism tendencies.
Laura Jean 20:32
Yep. Yeah, I think that, that opportunity to look in and out and look up. Yep, sort of zoom out. And zooming is is so helpful. Would you be able to give an example from from each of those levels? Like, like where you would start or some thoughts around that?
Jess Serdikoff 20:48
Absolutely. The easiest one to start with is always yourself, right? That's why we usually are quick to blame ourselves. Because when we look at something so big, like our whole system, our whole culture needs to shift that's daunting and a little paralysing, so start off with the individual level. And one of my favourite things to guide dietitians through is failing. That's, we can sugarcoat it, we can give you a little activities and reflection pieces. But ultimately, we have to be imperfect, and have that imperfection shine through and realise that we're going to survive anyway, to start to challenge this and start to be okay with imperfection overall.
Laura Jean 21:33
Yeah. And that's a good reminder that we can Yeah, we can sugarcoat things, we can look at it. But at the end of the day, it's it's that acceptance, acceptance of again, like not resignation, but acceptance of what is, that we're humans. things will go not exactly according to plan, and I'm sure everyone could think of an example around around that to maybe today even and,
Jess Serdikoff 21:59
and you've survived. (Laura - Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah) Like you've got through it. And that's really the piece when I work with dietitians, my clients will come to me and they'll be distraught over something that they felt was a horrible mistake, they maybe had a conversation that didn't go well. And after a few days of getting through that really uncomfortable experience, they're like, okay, I survived this, like, I can do this, this is okay, I'm going to be okay. And that's where we start to be able to disentangle ourselves from the hold that perfectionism has on us takes a long time, it's a slow process.
Laura Jean 22:37
And there's the sort of the thought piece and then there's also just even that felt sense that nervous system piece of actually of our nervous system recognising, because of course, our nervous system is really wired for threat. So that action of taking action and maybe it doesn't go to plan and our nervous system being able to collect that okay, that isn't a Sabre toothed Tiger you know, chasing us down on the savanna where that's actually just, that's livable, you know, that's not a threat to our survival, and being able to get that lived experience of that for your own individual nervous system and for your thoughts and in being able to yet take advantage of neuroplasticity and reprogram that, that those things aren't actual threats. For us.
Jess Serdikoff 23:26
Yep. And that's where the support comes in too. I mean, having someone in your corner who can help you see that, who can help you sit with the discomfort, help you process it, all of that is really helpful for you to be able to move through it and grow from it rather than getting stuck in it. So I always can't emphasise that Enough. Enough with it.
Laura Jean 23:47
Yeah, that's right. That support is the same support, It's similar support that I'm sure a lot of people listening would work through with their clients, with the humans they're working with. something happens and there's that catastrophizing or there's that feeling around that. And we would talk people through that exact same process. But I think exactly what you were saying before about sometimes it's hard to see the glass when you're on the inside. we can do that for other people and provide that support but Sometimes it's it's hard to do it for ourselves, which is the very reason we are a support person for other people because it's hard for individuals. (Jess - Exactly). Needing Yes, absolutely needing to get that support ourselves. So that's the micro level, looking at ourselves. and tinkering around with failing, coming to that acceptance and yes, recognising that you've survived at a thought level and also just a nervous system level. What about at the at the mezzo? level?
Jess Serdikoff 24:45
Yep. And other people may define them as a level in a different way. I like to focus on the dietetics profession, because it feels like one step up. We're looking at a system but not quite the largest system that we're operating under. So at the mezzo level with our profession, there are a number of ways. I would say one of the key ways is to model it and practice it and help to work with - being a preceptor for interns, doing presentations at a local university class, doing or even just kind of having a peer support group. Having spaces where we can talk about this and get it out in the open, not in a Haha, oh, well, this is just the hand we've been dealt, but in a really compassionate and supportive way where we can actually start to recognise we're not alone. There are some issues, and we can grow from it. So it's not so much. The first step would not necessarily be like, go and revolutionise the dietetics profession and like tear it down, or dismantle or rebuild it, or anything crazy big like that simply start having the conversations. Let's not struggle in silence.
Laura Jean 26:01
Yeah, yeah, your first step doesn't have to be going to talk to a group of university students about how you feel like you're failing in your career. And no one is, so don't worry. Yes, about just those conversations, starting those conversations, and you do that so well, within your space, around just talking about those things. And it's almost it's and again, you know, because like we talked about, for those that mirroring with society and mirroring with our bigger culture, there's always also those things of like, almost like, it's a bit of a taboo kind of space to talk about. And I know there's a few that you tackle that one and our bodies and our relationship with food as dietitians. But the more we talk about it, the more we as Brene brown would say wrap words around our shame, and we create spaces where we can, yeah, share experience really isn't it and, and that that common humanity piece - that we're not alone. So it might be with a colleague even or the people who don't mind maybe sharing a story on Instagram, or just that opportunity to put it out there. And I know that I found useful for things when I'm working through them to hear about other people's experience, you know, it's such a helpful tool, humans are meant to connect and we, we survived, but also we grow and change and, and build our awareness through that connection.
Jess Serdikoff 27:33
Yep, yep, completely. And sometimes I feel like what you just said is this hybrid of like a micro level, mezzo level and macro level approach, all tied into one, when we actually show up and share our imperfections or our mistakes, we're really helping this whole process, because we're helping ourselves at an individual level, right, like admitting that we're not perfect, and sitting with the discomfort of that. We're also having these conversations with other dietitians because especially if it's on social media, that we're talking about posting a story, I have plenty of stories that I can share of the mistakes I've made and how I've just plastered all over my social media page, so everyone knows, so you're normalising it for them. But then you're also starting this bigger conversation with everyone to start to challenge it and wake up. And, and again, it's hard to say like, the whole system, the whole culture that we work in is a problem. So we need to change it, that's gargantuan, and there are things we can do. But ultimately, again, starting those conversations outside of dietetics too is also a really powerful way to go about it.
Laura Jean 28:49
Absolutely. And I think as dietitians we have the opportunity, not the pressure, but the opportunity to do that like when we're showing up. And this is something I'm really passionate about and talk about all the time when we show up as ourselves in our work when we show up in that way, relating to the humans we want to work with, when we see ourselves as humans not as a dietitian that you know quote unquote, the dietitian but that I'm I'm Laura and hey, you're, you're the human over here that wants some support. And it's that real relational, creating a space of relation and it really is re-humanising us and them and not even thinking of it as us and them but human and human to rather than the traditional dietitian, model. And I was talking about this with a client just last night about how it's almost like, you know, over here is the dietitian, and it's stripping all of that human, you know, all of the parts of us that are human and showing up as this dietitian that goes through these series of questions and gives the education and gives the recommendation and sets the review and like you know, drives that whole thing. I mean, this is how I trained and then on the other side, there's the other person, the other person who was a human before they walked in, the client, you know, into the door and they they become the client. And they're the person with diabetes. They're the person with irritable bowel. They become the client. It's that stripping away. And I think that one of the pieces that sort of comes through when you talk about when we talk about stories, and when we talk about, you know, recognising failure and stuff, it really is just rehumanizing ourselves, you know, showing up as human seing the people that we're working with as humans, and that can sound really simplistic, but doesn't always feel easy, but I think when we can bring it back to that, I think sometimes that can feel a bit more grounding a bit more accessible point to kind of come into it, then the feeling like we have to, like you know, change everything or do things differently than just actually more stripping away than adding in.
Jess Serdikoff 30:44
Yes, it is, it's, it's being present with someone, being a human with someone, being vulnerable with someone and creating a space where they feel comfortable being vulnerable too. And so one of the ways that we deal with perfectionism on this bigger macro level, is, we're in a great position, we work with people, all the time, we're helpers. And what that means is that we can incorporate a validation of imperfection, and allow people to be imperfect, with their eating, with their relationship with their bodies, with their health with all of these things. And so when when this becomes a current that runs through everything in our lives, we can then kind of pay it forward and get this messaging instilled in someone else. And little by little, we can start to recognise how it impacts all little areas of our lives and our relationships.
Laura Jean 31:40
Yeah, absolutely. We really do have the power to change the world as dietitians (Jess - we do) Absolutely. And those conversations, and probably, you know, you could probably think about it, and I imagine many of the dietitians listening around those conversations that that for us, maybe feel sort of small, where we're kind of just normalising something can then have this big impact on the human that we're talking to, and then this big ripple out into their lives. And yeah, it's it is that power of connection and the power of being human and, and allowing people to see what they're doing not as a failure, not as a failing or a personal failing, but actually just as a behaviour or just as a thought and just as something that is part of that bigger picture and that it doesn't have to stop you living living your life or, yeah, being human.
Jess Serdikoff 32:39
Yeah, I was I was in a group call with a small number of my one on one clients, because I get all of my, when I have one on one clients, I put them together on a group call once a month still and small groups so that they can experience each other. And one of them was really nervous, because she was about to start a practice. And she was like, What am I even going to say in session with people? Like, how am I going to fill this space and she was feeling a lot of anxiety around it. And one of my other clients who I've been working with for a while, hit the nail on the head, and she said, You know, I've, I learned when I was counselling, when I was working with people that it's less about having an answer, having like an agenda, having all these materials and more about holding space, and more about showing up and being with a person and that may not seem outwardly like it's related to perfectionism, but it does challenge our own feeling like we have to constantly give and prove ourselves and where are the expert hats and it also allows the other person the safety to be vulnerable and to be imperfect as well
Laura Jean 33:48
absolutely yeah that the holding space piece and creating a space for relationship. like you know you're not going to necessarily be hanging out on the weekends Of course with the humans you're working with but just that relationship within that dynamic of interaction. because we need those spaces created for connection, for conversation but also for change and healing which is what we're trying to support people around. so yeah, that's a beautiful, beautiful piece added in which I think so many dietitians have that struggle at the start like what do we do, which is probably why as a profession we developed this lovely rigid assessment form and all these things too so that we didn't have to you know, that we got it quote unquote, right. But yeah, that that stripping away, stripping away of those things and those tools. Something that I would like to touch on, because I know that we both talk around this a little bit, is and I like the way that you bring I suppose perfectionism or all those things into it, but around burnout and around because it is a big, big issue for individuals. I mean, I work with I'm working with somebody at the moment around that, but also at a professional level, you know, part of me, we lose so many amazing dietitians from our profession, because of it.
Jess Serdikoff 35:12
We do, we do, we're seeing kind of this like exodus from the field, where people are getting very disenchanted by the work, they're losing their passion. And dietitians are such passionate humans that to see so many of us grappling with our purpose and questioning our decision to be a dietitian. And then as more people leave the field or even they don't leave the field, but they leave a job that was burning them out, then the burden falls on the remaining dieticians on the team, and then they start to get burnt out. And we we are dealing with a really big issue. It's actually, the most recent study that I saw, I found that at least 50% of dietitians are experiencing burnout currently. And I would venture to guess that particularly with the effects of the pandemic over the past year were significantly higher at this point.
Laura Jean 36:03
Yeah, that's a pretty big stat and a pretty, pretty big piece. What sort of role do you see around that connection there with with perfectionism or with, with those individual pieces that we bring, that we know are impacted on by the biggest systemic picture? But yeah, what do you say is the role there?
Jess Serdikoff 36:26
Yeah, well, you can kind of illustrate it a little bit with maybe the undergrad and internship experience, at least in the US, I like it as an example that we can then carry through into our careers. So the US experience of becoming a dietitian is very much you have to have competitive grades, like you have to have a near perfect GPA, you have to be doing extracurriculars, you have to have work experience, you have to like check all the boxes, right? You so you basically have to be a perfect candidate, so that you can get into this overly competitive internship. Once you're in the internship, you have to be performing and juggling all the things and hitting all the milestones, you're working 40 hour weeks, and studying and doing all of this other stuff. And then you have this incredibly difficult exam, which I know is not as as stressful, necessarily in all other places, but it's still a big exam that we take to become registered. And we hit this point where we become a dietitian, after all these years of schooling and proving ourselves and trying to be perfect and, and hit all of these, or I should rather should say jump through all of these hoops that they set out for us that we don't know any other way. We don't, we never were taught how to say no to something because we had to say yes to everything, right? We were never taught how to slow down and rest because everything was like this giant marathon race to get to the end. And so we come out of schooling as a dietitian, and we literally don't know how to not burn out. It's kind of just destined in our cards, unless we are very fortunate to either have the self awareness, or maybe we hit burnout early on. And we can recover and recognise that we need to change things. But for the most part, we're kind of set up for this.
Laura Jean 38:21
Yeah, I think that piece that you just sort of mentioned in there around that, that we aren't shown another way. It's not there. And which of course is you know, at that bigger level, that is what keeps the system alive, because of course if we don't know any other ways, so that real, that awareness piece, that questioning is so important, and I know that you, that this is something you're passionate about and you have an event coming up soon around, around kind of how it all interweaves. And we'll drop a link in the show notes. But did you want to talk about what that's gonna look like?
Jess Serdikoff 38:57
Absolutely. So I wanted to really encapsulate the the biggest struggles of dietitians and across the board, it's imposter feelings and burnout that come up the most, which of course have that undercurrent of perfectionism in them. That's what weaves them together. So I'm hosting a two to three day live workshop. The third day is a q&a. So like two days of intensive learning and interaction and dynamic discussions about ending dietitian burnout and imposter feelings that you can really start to feel confident moving forward, moving past some of these things that are holding you back. And then again, we'll have lots of time in that event as well for questions and answers and open discussion to really again, get this out in the open. So if you've been struggling with these things, I highly encourage you to check it out. It's free of charge, and it's coming up in November. So it's it's gonna be a really exciting event to do.
Laura Jean 39:57
Excellent and I'll put the dates and links too etc in the shownotes if anyone wants to check that out with I think, like you said, creating more spaces where we can talk about it and talk to it, and also just that, that support to enact those conversations around so where to from here, because I think there's such power in us being aware, seeing what it is, accepting the bigger picture pieces at play, but then also thinking okay, well then what now, but sometimes I think we can we can reflect we've got awareness, and then like you said, we kind of get stuck in that point of like, well, this is too big, what can I do, there's nothing I can do. So those conversations around, where we can go, what we can do as individuals, but also and I really appreciate how you sort of looked at at those different levels. And even though of course, they all intertwine that opportunity to sort of think about it in those different ways to kind of, I suppose just to stop us getting overwhelmed as easily by it because it is a big issue.
Jess Serdikoff 41:00
And that's that's what this event is for I was very careful because obviously burnout and imposter feelings are huge issues. So to tackle them, even in two days is, is huge. So I made sure to structure it in a way that is not overwhelming. It's actionable, it's relatable, it feels doable, so that we can really start to not get paralysed and instead take that action so that we can start to repair some of these systemic influences that we've been internalising and perpetuating for the past. Who knows how many years?
Laura Jean 41:36
Yeah, absolutely. And it just creates that space for dietitians to to be able to come back to their work with that passion. And with that drive, and with all their humaneness, recognising that we're all messy around that, which then of course, then just strengthens our profession, which then of course, creates space for other humans to come and be supported by dietitians, when we're supported, when we can show up. And we can, you know, potentially be a mirror as well for other people around around that work as well, which Yeah, has those ripples Getting Started.
Jess Serdikoff 42:12
It does. And I firmly believe that now is an incredible time to be a dietitian, there's a lot of growing pains that we're experiencing. And there are a lot of concerns out there. So I understand that it's not a comfortable time to be a dietitian. It's also such a cool time. You know, there's we're kind of at this crossroads, and we really get to reinvent what it means to be a dietitian, and we can lay a strong foundation for the future. So I'm really excited about it. If you're experiencing any of that disenchantment, or that self doubt, I highly encourage you to either check out the event or connect with me or have these conversations because I think that there's a different way that we can be looking at it and I don't think that you've made a mistake in your career choice.
Laura Jean 42:54
No, we need more awesome dietitians like you staying the profession because yeah, we are, like you said, dietitians, the people who come to dietetics are so passionate about it and it's it's about getting these conversations, changing that way we look at it about being your kind of dietitian, you know being who you are showing up as yourself and and just stripping away some of those things that often get in the way and get stuck. So we'll put that in the show notes and where else if people want to check out what you're up to and just connect and continue the conversation post podcast where can people learn more about you Jess?
Jess Serdikoff 43:34
I am definitely most active on Instagram at empowering dot dietitians (@empowering.dietitians) so I have regular content plus you can slide into my DMs if you want to chat and get to know me or if you have any questions, I'm always happy to chat there. And then I also run my own podcast where every week I come out with a new topic sometimes have guests sometimes go solo all about these conversations around being a dietitian, the struggles that we face. And that is the empowering dietitians podcast.
Laura Jean 44:01
Excellent well I will put all that in the shownotes and so put your empowering dietitians handle and the podcast and also to actually, what i might even do is get you to, if there's any particular episodes that you think really link in very well. I'll link to that episode becasue sometimes it's good to have a point to start with someone's podcast, you know, you kind of go to it. And it's like oh, because you've been doing yours
Jess Serdikoff 44:30
for 16 episodes. Yeah, well over a year now.
Laura Jean 44:33
have a jumping in point. So we'll pop that in. (Jess - Absolutely). Thank you so much for this conversation Jess as always. They're always rich when we have a conversation whether it's a quick dm or a nice and nice lengthy chat on the podcast, which has been great. So thank you, so much.
Jess Serdikoff 44:49
Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Laura Jean 44:52
Yes and absolutely do reach out and connect with Jess because she is providing such a great space for support, just a space where these conversations, where we can have them and the more we have them as individuals, as a group as a culture, the more we can just create a space where we can keep having them and keep building that awareness. So I really appreciate you and the work that you're doing. I think it's so powerful.
Jess Serdikoff 45:17
Thank you.
Laura Jean 45:19
Excellent. Okay, well, we'll leave you with that. If you've got questions or comments do pop over and leave them on the post over at dietitian values on Instagram, and absolutely go and connect with Jessica. And we will chat again next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai