Ep 166: Capacity, connection & trust with Charlie Golightly

Today I'm in conversation with a favourite human of mine, Charlie Golightly.

Charlie is a queer & gender expansive dietitian, educator, speaker, and supervisor. They are the founder of Moxie Mind, a virtual private practice based out of Denver, Colorado. They are passionate about supporting heart-led clinicians do better work through individual and group supervision, the Counseling Skills for Dietitians Who Give a Damn course, the Gender From the Inside Out Course, and human-centered business consulting.

In this conversation we dive into:
- making private practice your own,
- identifying and honouring your capacity
- existing and doing business in the shitty systems we are part of
- trusting ourselves
- cultivating a practice of curiosity and connection
- gardens, savoury pumpkin dishes and so much more

Let's dive in.

Links, resources & mentions

Charlie’s details:

website: www.moxie-mind.com

email: moxiemindrd@gmail.com

Episode transcript

Laura Jean 0:03

Hello, hello, and welcome to this week's episode of The dietitian values podcast. And I've got a guest with me today. It's been a little while since we've had a guest on the podcast, and I'm very excited to be talking to this human anytime, but I always like when I can bring a conversation with somebody that I think is a very cool human to you as well. So I've got Charlie Golightly here to chat today. And Charlie is a queer, gender expansive dietitian, educator, speaker and supervisor. They're the founder of Moxie mind, which is a virtual private practice based in Denver, Colorado. They're passionate about supporting heart led clinicians to do better work through individual and group supervision. They have a group program counseling skills for dietitians who give a damn, which I love, that name, the gender from the inside out course, and also humans. They do some human centered business consulting. So I'll will also, yeah, thanks for thanks for being here, Charlie. It's nice to have you.

Charlie Golightly 1:02

Yeah, thanks for having me so excited. Always excited to chat with you.

Laura Jean 1:05

Yeah, and I'd love to just, obviously, we've got the official bio, of course, but I'd love to hand it over to you to introduce yourself in or to add anything to that, or what's kind of, what's kind of front of mind for you at the moment, around you and what you're holding.

Charlie Golightly 1:22

Yeah, I think, if anything, I would add just I'm always most interested in doing the things that are going to be connecting and community driven, and hopefully the group of people that I'm interacting with feel somewhat at least values aligned. Yeah, I think I'm accustomed now to being in, picking and choosing spaces that feel a little bit of like a safety bubble, where we might be thinking similarly or making business decisions similarly, or living our lives somewhat similarly. And not to say that I don't value the diversity of other thoughts and opinions and beliefs and things as well. But yeah, I think one of the benefits of private practice is being able to sort of pick and choose people where you're just vibing and really getting along together and sort of getting it in the similar ways.

Laura Jean 2:22

Yeah, absolutely. I think I often talk about it that it almost feels a little bit like magic when you get to that point where you're able to where the conversations you start having, because your values do lead the way, just tend to be aligned it's like, oh, that sounds great. That sounds exactly like me. Like, how did you know it's like, well, probably because you were leading with your values for so long that people knew,

Charlie Golightly 2:46

yeah, it's so nice to meet people and just have an instant sense of, like, connection or resonance in some way.

Laura Jean 2:52

Yeah, and I imagine it's not always been like this, and I don't necessarily want to, you know, we didn't have to, like, bash things out, but I'd love to kind of hear a little bit about your you know, your journey, your story, like, what have you been up to? So how long have you been a dietitian for? I think I know that somewhere in my head, but

Laura Jean 3:14

yeah, easy to forget. I've been a dietitian for nine years and running a small business for six.

Laura Jean 3:20

So what else have you been? What kind of got you here? What was,

Charlie Golightly 3:24

Well, I think, as is the case for a lot of us, my own disordered relationship with food led me to initially want to become a dietitian, and then later to work in eating disorder spaces. And I also think that my personality, and then some, you know, nurturing environmental things led to me feeling a strong sense of independence and wanting to work for myself, which is how I ended up being a business owner. I think from undergrad, I knew I wanted to have a business of my own someday, but I also am very practical and very intentional, and so I had this sort of master plan in my head from the get go that I would have a couple years working in other places and gaining some experiences felt interesting to me before launching a private practice, and that's what I did. So now we're here, and my journey has been really lovely. I mean, full of ups and downs, as they always are. But yeah, really have been enjoying being a business owner, and at this point, can't really imagine working for someone else.

Laura Jean 4:32

Yeah, and do you feel like when you first started out, that you had that same kind of, like point of alignment, like that you mentioned before, like, did that? Did that kind of happen sooner rather than later for you?

Speaker 1 4:47

Hmm, I think no. It's sort of hard to remember in some ways, especially because running a private practice especially feels like such an extension of yourself. It's like I am the Business and the business is me, but so I know that I've always been a part of it, but I know that also, in the beginning, you know, I really struggled with this idea, there didn't seem to be many strong blueprints of how the heck to have a business or to make a private practice, there's lots of coaches and suggestions and courses and things you can buy. But it just felt like, but how do I make this my own? And so yeah, the first several years, and probably to some extent still, I it was this like, Okay, well, I'll try this thing because someone else told me to do this, or someone else is doing this, and they seem to be making it work, air quotes somehow. And then me kind of like reflecting, reconfiguring, maybe unpacking and redoing some things to feel like it, yeah, was more aligned, and more me, more mine.

Laura Jean 6:00

So do you feel like, for you, it kind of that shifted to go from kind of like, oh, this is kind of, you know, how you do it this day figured out, to then figuring it out, well, this is how I do it. How I was that, like a bit of a sort of fuck around and find out process for you, or were there specific things that supported you to kind of to find that, or to or that, like little whether they're kind of like big aha moments or just that kind of slow burn,

Speaker 1 6:26

yeah, probably a mix of all of that I definitely have been fucking around and finding out for a long time, but also just maybe finding, finding people that felt more aligned, and then the suggestions that they might have, or ideas they might have just feel more maybe collaborative from the get go, rather than like a mandate that I felt, that thought of like, this is the one and true way to do this thing. I remember taking a really, in hindsight, gross, like, course, in the beginning of my practice on sales, and it used these really disgusting sales tactics, and I had a discovery call with someone actually who then later became a client, and they shared with me like that first call was really gross, like I already knew you, and I knew I wanted to work with you, but that call almost made me not want to, because it was so yucky. And I'm like, Thank you for saying that, because it felt so yucky to me. And so I think it things like that would happen. Or as I was starting to say and stopped saying, meeting other people, connecting with other people who I admired or shared values, or were also kind of paving their own way. And then their suggestions felt more like a deeper resonance, or I kind of like, could put a little bit more trust in it, because I knew I already felt some sense of alignment with them, or the way they were doing things. So it felt a little less like, Yeah, I'll throw some spaghetti at the wall and try this out, and more like this really feels in my bones like this might be a thing that works well for me.

Laura Jean 8:06

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Because I think that experience, I think that's really common for a lot of not just dietitians, but you know, any kind of individuals that don't align with the values of the systems we're embedded in. When you know, you come across that business stuff and try it out, and to realize, oh, actually, yeah, that's not for me and to but and having those relationships, yes, where people can share that with you, which isn't always the case, but one thing that I kind of notice happening, and I don't know if this is your experience, or maybe this happened for you, or you, you know through conversations is, though, in those situations, there's often that kind of pendulum swing of like, either, oh well, marketing's just all marketing's gross, I've got to throw it in the bin, or I suck at this, so I'm no good at kind of doing business, as opposed to what it sounds like you found, which might not have been what the initial revelation was for you, but like, of, oh no, that's just not for me. So there must be something another way that I can do this.

Charlie Golightly 9:09

Yeah, absolutely. I think for a while it did feel sort of all or nothing, of like, Oh my gosh. Well, all of the information I have on marketing, for example, just feels like garbage to me, like we're preying on people's insecurities or trying to manipulate them into something and so then, I mean, I think also the nature of having a nutrition private practice that's an arm of healthcare, the marketing is just different than when you're doing more what I'm doing Nnw, which is supervision, education, other things like that. And so, you know, the marketing felt less, almost like applicable at some point when I was seeing nutrition clients, because it was focused more the marketing air quotes was like having coffee with a therapist who I really liked, you know. Kind of connecting and making sure we felt values aligned and sort of had some level of trust to send clients to each other, versus, I don't know, making a Facebook ad gross, you know, just like the things changed, but I would say that now, in the last few years, doing, stepping away from nutrition counseling services that I have had to re examine my marketing efforts and not only consider what aligns with my values and what doesn't make me feel super gross to put out there in the world, but also what is within my own capacity and interest, because I think there's this other piece that comes in with marketing and just like running a business and kind of hustle culture under capitalism in general, which is there's always something more you could be doing, and maybe the flashy, sparkly thing you desire is just a little bit more effort ahead. You know, if you just do this one more thing or the special way, or you just keep working a bit harder, then you'll have this glimmering thing, and I just don't think that's rooted in reality all of the time.

Laura Jean 11:17

Yeah, no. And I think for many of the people you know, there's those parallels too. For even if people haven't, sort of noticed that, from the business point of view, those parallels from the diet culture point of view of just it's that next diet, that next diet's going to be the thing. And so yeah, in the business world, for sure. And yes, of course, you know. And everyone listening knows that. I think the values pieces is huge because it, it allows us to sort of see and the piece that you touched on there, that capacity, that other, that other piece of it is turning our values towards ourselves. So it's not just using our values to choose well, that marketing strategy aligns, but actually, like you know, as an external thing I want to put out there. But also, then what actually takes care, like based on whatever values that are the fit for you, but what actually allows me to show up as myself, to honor my capacity to actually not continue to extract. Because I think sometimes what I notice is that first step of realizing, Oh, gross. I don't want to extract from other people. I don't want to play that kind of value of the capitalism game. I don't want to play any games, but I don't want to enact that and going that next step of noticing how we're turning like that disconnect of those values, our values, versus those capitalist values of extraction towards ourselves, particularly in business, is Yeah, can be trickier,

Charlie Golightly 12:51

absolutely well, and I mean, it's annoying that capacity often yeah doesn't sort of play capitalism's game capacity is in many ways, very unpredictable. And there I've certainly heard throughout the years, like certain systems of sort of trying to track or monitor or plan for, you know, within like menstruation cycles, for example, when you might be most productive versus when you might need a rest, or kind of looking at your planner or whatnot, and thinking ahead, but even that only gets us so far, and so I think, and this is not unique to me or to us or this conversation, but you know, there's this ongoing thread of thought that, what if we oriented our business around ourselves and our capacity instead of The other way around, which I think is often what the messaging and the cultural assumption is under capitalism is like, well, you have this many hours in a week, so what are you going to do with it? Right?

Charlie Golightly 13:52

and we know, but we also know that an hour can be so different day to day, especially when you, I mean, you could speak to having children, I can speak to I can't I maybe you have other pieces as well that you could speak to. I don't want to speak for you, but I know I can speak to, like chronic illness and navigating all of the unexpected bumps that come up when you're supposed to be having a session, right? Doing something else, right? So, and just like the world being such garbage lately and all of these unprecedented events on top of each other, so I think that our capacities are always fluctuating. And the other harsh reality of running a business is that a lot of times you don't really get paid if you don't work. I also so I think there's a lot of pressures to manipulate our capacity and show up in a certain way, or show up period when we might not actually have sort of the spoons or the energy to do that

Laura Jean 15:02

yep, and yeah, I think that there's that piece there and just that little last, there's so many things about what you said that I could follow along with this, that last bit about, you know, we don't get paid. And then, so then it becomes like, I think we can get stuck in that idea that that is a, like, a set condition, which, obviously, in capitalism, it is a set condition, and going that next step of thinking, Well, what else could exist? As far as, yeah, maybe not. We can't overthrow the whole system. Hopefully, these podcasts don't get screened for like, sort of keywords, like other spaces and places, but, like, how can we change our system, like, our ecosystem, like that kind of that immediate space is sort of where my mind went straight away. Because I think often we sort of stop at that point of, well, if I don't work, I don't get paid, and that is the only way, or that is, like, the only existence which it can definitely feel like, obviously, in our systems, and you know, who benefits, it's definitely not us. So, like, that's not to gaslight people into thinking that there are other ways. And if we could just, we could just imagine different things, which we can but there's the reality the both/and, of course, how, like, what are some of the practices? Or might not be practices, but how do you navigate that for yourself, around that space, like when, either when those kind of ideas come up and or those thoughts which try and pull you outside of it, or what do you have to kind of help you, to guide those times when you do push because you do need to get paid, and how to maybe, like, a bit of a guardrail or boundary that that not stops you getting is better. But anyway, I don't know if you know kind of where I'm where I'm going with this question was like, how do you support yourself to and again, maybe it's been fucking around and finding out and build that trial and error and getting burned out and coming back from effort. Yeah, so what's sort of been, what do you have in place now? What do you try and hold to support you in that?

Charlie Golightly 17:15

Yeah, it's tricky, because things are sort of always evolving, and so sometimes tactics that I've used in the past don't work in the end of, you know, in a certain situation, but I definitely have some tangible ways that I try to navigate, mostly around managing my time and boundaries around that and like energy, and then also some more, almost like just mental and emotional tolerance building, or, you know, other ways that I'm trying to manage that energetic piece of the scarcity mindset and the fear and like all these other pieces that can come up in the mix. So yeah, I feel like one of the things that is really helpful to me, especially knowing just kind of the physiological happenings of our brains when we're in some sort of stress response, and knowing that, you know, our logical prefrontal cortex, like rational thought, sort of goes offline, I find it really helpful for me to just have, like, a running list. So in my phone, for example, I have an ailments and remedies, sort of list that, in part, is related to some of my chronic health conditions, just like quick links to a video that I forget about when I have a certain, you know, condition or something, but also around work, I think it can be helpful to have just a list for yourself of ideas, because, especially again, when you're in a panic state, it can be easy to forget like, oh yeah, I can put on a Vacation Responder on my email that says, like, I'm not responding to emails. Here's a quick link or something, or, you know, maybe I'm more intentional about my time, like booking people only a certain number of people on a certain day or in a certain time frame, or taking bigger breaks if I can get it, or things like that, like the sort of tangibles, and then, yeah, it's also, I feel like I'm sort of constantly asking myself, when something big and scary, like a big scary story comes up, like, oh my god, if I don't push through this migraine and see this person today, I'm not going to make any money. And then, like, you follow the thread, and it's very scary what could happen, right? And I don't want to minimize the that that is a reality for a lot of us, like living under capitalism, that that is a real reality, and it is terrifying. But also, I think I I'm constantly asking myself kind of what you were saying, Who benefits from this? Or where did this come from? Right? And a lot of times it's something outside of me and outside of that moment, and I think again, like working, you know? So there's kind of like this self soothing reminder piece that I'll do with myself, or this exploration place, place if I'm in the head space for it, of trying to follow the thread, where did this come from? Does this feel like it belongs to me? What do I do if not? How do try to release that. And I'm kind of oversimplifying it. It's not this easy, but for the same and then also, yeah, like this soothing part of myself, this kind of adult parental figure within me that has to show up some of the time to say, this is really grieving. This is really hard, this is really scary. I logically know that I could reschedule and like I could, quote, make this work financially, or whatever the other fear is, yeah, and I think that I've had to do a lot of grief work and yeah, just kind of like regular learning to regulate myself constantly in this work, both in The nature of maybe, like the conversations, or the actual tangible work and all of the shit that comes up around it, and running the show from the back end.

Laura Jean 21:31

So what you're saying is it's messy.

Charlie Golightly 21:34

Yeah, it's so messy

Laura Jean 21:36

you don't have a three step blueprint for us.

Charlie Golightly 21:40

So sorry. I'm so sorry. I wish I did, but also that would be bullshit, like, if I did awesome. This is bullshit.

Laura Jean 21:48

Well, it makes me think of like, you know, how you were talking about the, you know, tracking and those kind of things and those kind of ways that are out there, and all of those kind of things can be helpful and can be supportive. I've done many of those things myself, and there's that kind of can get to that point where they become whether it's us doing it to that system, or somebody else is doing it and then selling it back to us, where they start to get co opted by the values of capitalism and the values of that idea of like, okay, we can do a thing with this. And it's like, well, I can track my cycle. I can do this so that I can be more productive, as opposed to so I can know myself, so I can take care of myself. But yeah, so, yes, sort of like that. You know, ie for weight loss kind of vibe. Well, that thing looks really good. Okay, now we could use it for this thing. Now we can, we can pull that out of it. But yeah, it, I think that's that piece. Because I think there can be the, again, that pendulum swing of like, oh, I can't do that because I don't have x, y and z to be able to do that. Or I tried it and it didn't work for me, because it wasn't like, not the people always looking for easy, but because there wasn't, you know, because it felt uncomfortable, it felt messy. It didn't work straight away. And even when you've been practicing it for 10, 15, 20 years, you still have to practice it every day, because that's not the

Charlie Golightly 23:18

that's the most annoying part about self work.

Laura Jean 23:23

I thought it was 10,000 hours, and we were experts. God damn it,

Charlie Golightly 23:26

yeah, I thought there was a finish line somewhere.

Laura Jean 23:30

There is a finish line. And we don't want, well, I don't want to get to that finish line myself just yet. There's, there is a finish line. There's only one.

Charlie Golightly 23:41

You're right, you're right.

Laura Jean 23:42

There is one, but, um, it's not the one we've been, you know, sold, or, you know, or programmed to think about kind of finish line. But I think actually something like you said before, I often when you were saying about how, you know, sometimes you are feeling this, and then you have to be the person to be the parent, be the, be the basically, like, that kind of same role. Because sometimes I look at my kids and I think, Man, I wish I had a mum who could just step in right now, because it's just like, oh, like you can just like your water bottles empty in the middle of the night, you just go like, 'mum, can you fill this up' Oh my god, wouldn't that be amazing, but again, the messy reality as adults is that we, we are we. We have to do that wrong too, god damn it. So anyway, just made me think of that because I'm often lamenting that piece for myself?

Charlie Golightly 24:43

I know, yeah, no, I definitely agree. Sometimes it's really annoying to have to be the responsible adult in the room, even when it's just you with yourself. And I also feel like I've been doing a lot of self work around like allowing myself to have that Inner Child experience sometimes to, like, throw a temper tantrum or just be really vocally upset about something, even if it's just Me, myself and I having a temper tantrum. Yeah, I think that that feels important, at least for me and part of the Yeah, like, grieving and having an emotional response and and acknowledging that, I guess I think for myself. I don't know if other folks in business feel this, but especially when I'm a solopreneur, so like, just me in the business, and I often feel, there's a pressure that if I don't get it done, then it doesn't get done, right? And so, and then we add in every layer that we've already mentioned, of like, I don't know any sense of urgency or hustle or just needing actually prioritize things to be done, to get paid, or whatevern the thing is that I am so good at sort of keeping my shit together so that things get done and things kept rolling. And so it's almost been this. There's been a radical process for me in sort of learning that a little bit, and learning how to make it messy again and like sort of fall apart at different moments, because trying to constantly keep it together also fucks with my capacity, I cannot do that sustainably, and it's not real.

Laura Jean 26:26

Yeah, because at what cost does that come? Yeah,

Charlie Golightly 26:34

yeah, exactly,

Laura Jean 26:37

yeah. And I think, yeah, you know, that is that messiness and those practices, and it's also we're embedded in, particularly in business, that kind of, that vibe, unfortunately, of somebody always kind of trying to promise that they have or, like, there's that allure of that next thing, you know, It's this thing, it's the cycle tracking, or it's the, it's just this planner, I mean, but, you know, go and buy all the planners. Because clearly, there could plan, as I really could, I think, but, you know, like that, there's this, there's this thing that we're missing, or there's this next thing that we could find, that could be the answer, like, you know, that keeps us in that kind of, yeah, like looking for that thing. Like, okay, so I'm not going to white knuckle and push myself through so now I've got to look for this thing that, you know, that tendency to look for that, I suppose, that solution outside of ourselves or that, or even just looking for a solution like that, there is a solution at all.

Charlie Golightly 27:40

Oh yeah, I love doing this. I'm the kind of person that when I get hyper fixated on something, I'm like, checking out 10 books in the library, researching every podcast on the topic. You know, just like really trying to absorb all of the content. And I found myself doing this several months ago, where I was like, Maybe I should, I should take a course or read several books or podcasts or whatever on my relationship with money, which I think, to be fair, is like a fabulous thing to do for yourself, is to examine your relationship with money. And there are so many ways of doing it. But also I have, like, done many courses and books and podcasts on that topic over the years, and so for me, sometimes when I'm in that moment, I'm like, Oh yeah, something else has happened for me, like something else is scared the shit out of me, something else like, created a sense of urgency around this, and not always, but I feel like often, if I can sort of slow it down enough and calm myself down enough to repeat and to actually genuinely believe that I already have everything that I need, like that feels like a very profound moment. And of course, there's like an asterisk around that. There's a ton of nuance. Because, of course, there's, I'm also a person who has a sort of growth mindset about me. I love being a learner, and there are always things that I can learn more about. But when, in particular, when those moments feel that are so sort of frantic and fraught and like you're saying, like I just need someone to tell me the answer, I just kind of already know that that's unlikely that someone else, maybe someone else, would sort of repackage something I might already know to me, in a different way that could really hit differently or, yeah, just kind of like hearing something slightly different or new in there. But for the most part, I think for me, when I'm in those moments, it's, it's a dream, there's there's allure of there being some secret answer that I don't I've never heard of so super fruit or whatever. Yes,

Laura Jean 30:09

it's out there. I know, and it, and I think it, it's that sense of safety piece, right? Like so and I can, I can really resonate, because I find a sense of safety in researching and knowing and trying to know all the information about a thing, because then that will be like, then I'll know all the things that's my, that's my that's my sense of control, kind of element coming up, are you an Enneagram 5 as well.

Charlie Golightly 30:35

No, actually, I'm a nine.

Charlie Golightly 30:37

You're a nine. Oh, that's because there's that real drive I find in a fivei to research, I mean, there's also the, if you were somebody who, you know, was, has been, always been pretty intelligent and like, yeah, found safety and knowledge, found praise in like, knowledge and knowing answers and found connection. You know, there was the, yeah, I think there's that piece too. So all sorts of bits. But yeah, I can relate to going down the research. I'll say to a friend, if I sent you an article or a thing or some research, know that's my love language. I'm saying. I'm like, the cat presenting the mouse, the dead mouse. I'm saying, here's a little something I researched for you.

Charlie Golightly 30:37

Absolutely, I did the same thing. I'm like, have you read these five books that all mention the topic you mentioned,

Laura Jean 31:27

but yeah, and it's that knowing, I think, comes back to that idea of, like, yeah, knowing ourselves around what, what those kind of, you know, to use some some more modern, modern cultural nomenclature of like, you know, red flags, those, those kind of little signs for us to know when we're going down that rabbit hole of, yeah, being pulled away from ourselves, being pulled away from that trust in ourself, and looking outside ourselves for the answers. However, that might come, whether it's some for some people, it might be by like, you know, they might find their way they tend to feel safe, is buying another course or doing that or other actions. For us, it's researching things. And I imagine many of the lifelong learners listening along, can relate to that. One for sure, the information that the answers in the next book, surely, yeah, or the next podcast, you know, I'll listen to it at 2.5 speed so I can find it really quickly.

Charlie Golightly 32:29

Oh, right, yeah, 2.5 speed. And like 5 a day, you know. So I'm really absorbing the content. In other words,

Laura Jean 32:37

look, if I can just intellectualize and not have to embody the fact that I actually just have to trust myself and trust myself and know that it's messy, then won't that be easy

Charlie Golightly 32:44

What an annoying answer that is sometimes, I have to trust myself.

Laura Jean 32:51

where's my mom.

Charlie Golightly 32:54

Yeah, I often find myself just moving in the same circle again and again. I'm like, oh, here we are back to trusting myself. Got it. You think I'd like learned the lesson, but no, sometimes you have to have a panic-library visit.

Laura Jean 33:06

Yeah. And I think of that too, though, that moving in the circle is something that I often think about, is to it looks like a circle from the top orfrom the outside, but really it's that spiral because, yeah, we're back there, but we've got a little bit extra, a little bit more perspective, or we've embodied it a little bit more, because each time, it doesn't get easy, it's not linear, as far as like, it's like, this beautiful spiral and every time it gets easier in that but I feel like we often have something different or extra, or when we when we get back in that spot, yes, we're back there again, and we've had some experiences between now and last time, maybe depending on how long ago it was that, that we've got something extra if we add in that piece of listening to ourself, I suppose, or listening to our experience, and trusting and doing like, you know what you're saying, those questions where we unpack and pick away so we can trust our experience, where we don't gaslight ourselves based on our cultural values, our family of origin values, all of those pieces that want us to so that we don't trust ourselves, so that when we get back to that same what feels like that same spot, we continue to enact those external looking actions and safety kind of mechanisms,

Charlie Golightly 34:23

right? Yeah, and as you were saying that, I was just thinking about, so I've known for a while that if I find myself in a situation where I'm asking all of my friends and then like acquaintances or like strangers on the street on how to make a decision about something, I have completely lost the plot, and, you know, should be checking in with myself, like, how can I get more clarity on this for myself, rather than relying on other people to somehow know the answer for me, right? But I think the same thing can happen with content. I mean, kind of what we were just saying, but as you were talking, I was also thinking about Social Media, and like Instagram in particular, about there's just so much out there, like, even beyond the books and the podcast, then you could go find random posts and blog posts, and, you know, just like tick toks, like, there's, there's so much out there. And so that, to me, feels like another way that I'm doing that, right, like it, it sort of feels more obvious to me when I'm asking when I'm like, texting or calling people, but then also noticing it, I'm recruiting random strangers on the internet to then also influence the decision for me. And I don't know, I guess sometimes maybe that could have some benefit or some merit, but also, like we're saying if we end up ending in the same spot of, I need to trust myself, or I need to check in with myself. Yeah, all of that sort of content and checking with other people isn't, isn't, ultimately helpful.

Laura Jean 35:54

So do you have again, anything for yourself, or things that you support people with or around or like, What are some ways, if somebody's listening to this, to support ourselves to do that reorienting from that outward, looking towards the inwards, like that trust and things, you don't have to be the Oracle with all the answers. I'm just curious.

Charlie Golightly 36:18

Great. Thank you for giving that

Laura Jean 36:22

Just in case you thought I, I was waiting for that big answer. That's huge solution for us. So this could be the podcast to end all podcasts

Charlie Golightly 36:30

We were teasing the audience this whole time that I have no answers and then, like, boom, I have the answer. Yeah. No, I won't pretend that I do. I The main thing that came to mind when you asked that was trying to have a conversation with someone that you really trust and feel aligned with. Because I can think of a couple people in my life where, when I go to them to ask for that, they give me an answer. They respond with more questions rather than actually giving me the answer, which is also what I train dietitians and other professionals to do with their clients, right when they ask you a question, can be kind of annoying, but to respond with more questions and curiosity, rather than putting the pressure on yourself and and the power sort of dynamic of having an answer coming up with a solution when you might not actually know. So I think, yeah, leaning on people that I know are in a place that can do that for me, and have sort of, I guess, some skill or ability to show up in that way with me. And it honestly is so annoying, though, when they do it, even though I know I go to them expecting that to be like, Thank you for making me reflect. Yeah, and I think also that's something that I tried to cultivate and curate, and in the services that I offer too, like I can think of so many supervision sessions where people come in with a really specific question or theme, and one of my favorite things to do is to sort of notice all the other stuff that they're like, sort of not saying so kind of big themes that I might be picking up on, or body language or semantics, or other pieces that, and just drawing attention to it. Like, did you notice that you sounded really annoyed when you just said that, or, you know, just pieces like that. So I guess the TLDR of that is is have someone who can reflect back to you without actually giving you an answer,

Laura Jean 38:37

yeah, cultivating those kind of spaces, communities, relationships, formal or informal, right, where they can be, yeah, people who hold that space for us to look in ourselves like it's for a bit trite, hold up the mirror, but like, really, because what we are wanting to do is Yeah, to trust ourselves and the people that allow hold space for that in whatever way that actually works.

Charlie Golightly 39:03

I also feel like having trying to minimize stimuli as much as possible is really helpful for me, because, like we've been saying, the barrage of inform,ation can be really overwhelming and sort of drown out your voice and your own sense of self in some ways. So I find that the times I feel most creative and the times I feel most sort of self assured and aligned within myself are when I've been like hiking in the woods for a little bit, or even just a little walk, or like getting out and not putting my headphones in, or like leaving my throwing my phone off a cliff, is always a good idea for me. You know, just those things I think are helpful and also really hard, because we live in we have an attention economy. So. So

Laura Jean 40:01

absolutely, yeah, I think that piece there of of having that space to actually know what your, you know, quote, unquote voice, whether it's literally what you say or like your felt sense of of that kind of like, what that actually sounds like, because, and you've probably used this, you know, strategy when you work with humans, around their relationship with food, and around like, who says that, or who said that? Like, because often people will have these little things, and there's literally somebody who has said that in their life over and over again. And I think that actually figuring out your own voice, like, as far as like, what you say versus what all those other things are, but yeah, you do need to quiet the noise like you do need to find that whatever that feels like, whatever that space is for you as an individual. we've gone like 53 minutes, and it's the first time I'm going to mention my garden. So I reckon that must be my past record. But for me, it's my garden.

Charlie Golightly 40:58

Yeah, we gotta mention that.

Laura Jean 41:00

Sorry, We're nearly out of time, and I haven't mentioned my garden yet. We haven't given any gardening tips. I can't believe we haven't got there. Sorry, derail, but yeah, you know those spaces, that place where you're held, and where it's where it is, a clearing, and maybe it's not exact silence, like obviously, everyone has to find the space that works for themselves, but yeah, where you actually can connect to what you sound like in your head or in your body, to know when it's you.

Charlie Golightly 41:33

Yeah, that's so important. I have no notes on that, like that. Yeah, that's just important.

Laura Jean 41:41

I was just thinking when you were saying that, like, that's that reducing the stimuli and the stimulus to that, I think, to make way. Well, one to to hear it, but yeah, that, that piece of knowing, yeah, anyway, sorry, just made me think of that. And also, clearly I needed to mention my garden, because we hadn't yet so thread that in.

Charlie Golightly 41:55

Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, obviously we have to mention it. I even shocked we made it this far without mentioning in the garden. I know,

Laura Jean 42:01

I know, for those of you who may or may not know, or may or may not care, but I'm going to tell you anyway, Charlie also has a garden, and we often talk about gardens, and sometimes share garden picks,

Charlie Golightly 42:11

And it's so fun because we live across the world from each other. Your garden is always like starting as mine is ending, and vice versa. So we've got a real cycle happening.

Laura Jean 42:20

Oh yeah. I live vicariously through the summer, the northern hemisphere, summer crops. And I know that, you know, my my spring garden content currently is hopefully, I probably people aren't looking for it just yet, because, because it's fall and and everyone's loving themselves sick over fall and the fall leaves and things. But soon, soon people will be, you know, be like, Yes, this is just the content I need when the world's blanketed in snow.

Charlie Golightly 42:46

Yeah, we're really in our pumpkin spice era right now. You know, as we, as we as fall usually brings so,

Laura Jean 42:53

It's so weird to me because pumpkin, here in Australia is a savory food like it has, obviously, pumpkin has its own identity. I'm not telling you pumpkin that you have to be savory. However, like, we use it in more savory dishes. Sometimes you'll add, like, a bit of sweetness to like, you know, you might glaze your honey, your pumpkin when you roast it with a bit of honey, but you're serving it with a roast dinner or in a salad with like, some feta or leaves or whatever. So we don't, yeah, we don't make drinks, coffee or things. I did, the first time I went to the US was Thanksgiving, and I did have pumpkin pie, and that was actually very tasty.

Charlie Golightly 43:33

Okay, great.

Laura Jean 43:34

I did enjoy that. But, yeah, we don't, yeah, so I always the idea of a pumpkin spice latte. I mean, I'm sure it's gross anyway, just just in its own right, but as somebody who eats like pumpkin soup and pumpkin, like pumpkin, roasted pumpkin next to your roast lamb, the idea that someone thought to turn that into exclusively dessert, like it feels like it's more exclusively a dessert based food

Charlie Golightly 44:01

yeah, yeah. I've never had, I don't think I've ever had roast pumpkin. Like, it sounds like you, you treat it like the rest of the squash family, yeah, which makes sense, because it is a squash,

Laura Jean 44:14

yeah, yeah. But yeah, if you've never had roast pumpkin, I highly recommend roast

Charlie Golightly 44:20

Okay, I'll put it, I'll put it on my list

Laura Jean 44:21

if you like pumpkin though, like, if you don't, well, how would you even know you like pumpking?

Laura Jean 44:24

I don't know. Yeah, well like pumpkin seeds I've had savory but

Laura Jean 44:31

yes, they're nice roasted on a salad with roasted pumpkin. So when I scoop, when I have my own homegrown ones I scoop out the seeds and roast the pumpkin, and then in the last five minutes I put the seeds in when I'm roasting it as well, and that makes a really nice salad addition,

Charlie Golightly 44:44

right? I'm coming to your house for dinner

Laura Jean 44:46

anyway. So yeah, look, we've completely derailed. I've completely derailed the conversation away from anything but food and gardens. So no, but please do. Oh, right now, actually, yeah, because it's pumpkin season. Oh, you should definitely get some, like the butternut ones, actually. When I was again, another time when I was in the US, I like, roasted up some of the delicata squashes. We don't get those here, which obviously isn't a true pumpkin, but along those same lines. So yeah, keep going with the actual orange pumpkins. Butternut ones, definitely.

Charlie Golightly 45:14

Those are my favorite.

Laura Jean 45:16

Yeah, toast, toast. Those up. But yeah, like roasted pumpkin. Some like, fetta, like match made in heaven, those those two.

Charlie Golightly 45:25

Yeah, sounds excellent. Okay, now I'm hungry

Laura Jean 45:29

So anyway, that's what you all came here for, before

Charlie Golightly 45:34

Give the people what they want.

Laura Jean 45:35

Yeah, I can't come back from this. I've actually just started planting my pumpkin plants. So full circle here, you know, I'm beginning the cycle. Charlie's finishing it up. before we do wrap up. Though, one thing that I often like to ask people to answer, and you don't have to do it if you don't want to. And it feels very meta, actually, because we were just talking about seeds. But I often there's a I have a favorite quote that we're planting seeds for a forest we may never get to spend time in, and it's a quote I ground myself back in when I feel like, you know, what am I even doing here? So I'd love to open it up to you, if you have any seeds to plants for us, or seeds that you are planting, or maybe it's a seed that's resonating for you, figuratively or literally. I mean, if you're planting actual seeds, you can share that too.

Charlie Golightly 46:28

Yeah, I definitely don't think this is the only seed I'm planting. I'm really into this quote, really into this metaphor. But top of mind, just because this is what I was doing earlier today, before we started recording, is I was teaching at a University, I teach one class per time, and I'm just always thinking about planting seeds, because it's a sort of nutrition 101class that a lot of folks will take as part of their science requirements. So it's not exclusive to folks who are going to be then working like as dietitians or something. So it definitely feels like a lot of planting seeds around weight neutrality and unpacking cultural, political norms around food and bodies. So I've definitely been planting the seeds in that class of how do we think about food beyond grams of or calories? And I think yeah, reminds me a lot of the work that I hope to put out in the world other seeds I hope to plant of just thinking about things differently and a little bit more zoomed out with more of us included.

Laura Jean 47:43

And you do so beautifully plant those seeds. And I, yes, I see the ripples, those little tendrils of those seeds, often in my work and conversation. So it's always nice.

Charlie Golightly 47:56

Thank you.

Laura Jean 48:00

Speaking of work and and what you're up to. What are you Yeah, what are you up to? Did you want? Is there anything going on that you want to share or let people know if about what you're doing at the moment or anytime doesn't have to be right now.

Charlie Golightly 48:13

Yeah, you can always come hang out with me in a supervision sense, whether that's individual or I often run groups of supervisees as well, and if you are person who's on a team or runs a team like a group practice, I also do supervision for teams, and then I also love spending time with folks in the courses that I offer, they are both sort of self paced virtual courses, but they both include community options, because I love community, as I'm sure I've mentioned several times. So each of them have Live Meeting sessions sort of baked in to the process as well. One is 'counseling skills for dietitians who give a damn', and the other one is for any type of cis person really can be helpful but particularly to clinicians, but folks in general who want to be a better gender ally to any gender diverse or expensive folks that you might have in your orbit, so those are the main ways to hang out with me. You can also, of course, always email me. You will not find me on Instagram. Most likely I don't like it there very much. So you can email me if you want to say hi,

Laura Jean 49:29

beautiful, and I'll drop that in the show notes, etc. Yes, we didn't even get to that about how you've quit Instagram any of those pieces. But anyway, so much, so much Charlie, is so much more than just this single conversation we have had. But I would highly recommend people connect. I generally if somebody's asking me about supervision, you are in my in my little initial wheelhouse of people, I would recommend, for sure, always let Charlie be the person who asks you annoying questions. eally good questions,

Charlie Golightly 50:01

That should be my new tag lines, I'll get onto that yeah.

Laura Jean 50:06

but also yeah and yeah, those different perspectives and different lenses around things which people who hang around here are often looking for. So thank you for sharing those. I'll put your email in the show notes so people can reach out and your website and details and yeah, people can do with that what they will? Anyone who wants to follow up on Charlie's experience with roasted pumpkin can also email.

Charlie Golightly 50:34

Maybe an upcoming email newsletter, who can say.

Laura Jean 50:36

I know I will be following up on that, but thanks so much for being here, Charlie and being in conversation. It was always a nourishing experience for me to be in community with you and yeah. And for those of you listening, yeah, thank you for being here with us too. We appreciate you. Well, I appreciate you. I shouldn't assume that Charlie does too. Sorry, Charlie,

Charlie Golightly 51:01

I do, yeah, you can you can lump me in there

Laura Jean 51:05

Okay, great, well, until next time. Bye for now.

Charlie Golightly 51:10

Ta, ta.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai